2x Woodcrest & 2x RME HDSP 9652 what Mobo?

hoglibogli · Junior Member Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 65

Hello PC-Experts,

i tried to follow the discussion about the most recent nuendo rigs for the last weeks, but got lost somehow. So far we have a dual opteron (1,6 GHz) and a couple of X2 4800+ systems running. We are now looking for something with more horsepower.
What we need is high Plugin/Track count with low latency (Control Room) & very little VSTi.
As far as I understood the discussions here on this board, a dual woodcrest (3 GHz) seems to be the best choice.
My actual question now is what mobo do I need if I want to use dual woodcrest and 2x RME Hammerfalls (HDSP 9652).
Everybody is talking about Dell, but don't they sell only complete Systems? I just want to change mobo, CPU & Ram.

Thanks a lot
_________________
Vincent

ten · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject:

For woodcrests get a greencreek chipset board (5000x). I recommend the board I am using, Tyan i5000xt but there are similar offerings from Supermicro and Iwill.

Ram you want fb dimms 667 speed. Any make will do for this really, they are all pretty much the same, just make sure you get 4 sticks to sum the total you want. So if you want 4gigs get 4x1gb dimms. I use Kingston fbdimms which are running fine here.

Chips are Intel Xeon 5160 (3ghz). You might also need a new psu, eps spec. Needs the 24 pin, the 8 pin and the 4 pin power cables. Also look for LGA771 cpu coolers. Not many about, I am using Verax 21 which are working well and very quiet.

Personally I wouldnt touch Dell or RME but thats just me ;-)

ten
_________________
- Abit IP35-E - Intel Q6600@3.6ghz
- 4gig ddr2@1200 - 2x 150GB Raptors
- Albatron 8800GT - Dell 3007-HC @ 2560x1600
- Lynx2-C - N4.1/R2.x - XPsp2/vist64 - Adam A7

hoglibogli · Junior Member Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 65

Thanks ten for the quick reply.
Will the two RME cards fit into the tyan board? I'm still not sure what PCI type card works in what slot. The hammerfal cards are "normal" PCI and the tyan board you mentioned has only 1 "normal" PCI slot.
RME worked fine over here and I don't know a better 48 channel in/out solution (if there is let me know I'm always interested in a better solution).
_________________
Vincent

ten · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject:

They will fit into the pci-x slots fine. Weather they work or not is a different story. There is already another thread on here with a guy having probs with his RME cards in these same slots in a very similar system. Weather that is his actual problem though we do not know yet.

Personally I would look at a bunch of Lynx AES cards with the Aurora convertors, or maybe even something from Motu. The RME stuff has just caused to many people problems for a whole load of different reasons that I dont recommend them.

ten
_________________
- Abit IP35-E - Intel Q6600@3.6ghz
- 4gig ddr2@1200 - 2x 150GB Raptors
- Albatron 8800GT - Dell 3007-HC @ 2560x1600
- Lynx2-C - N4.1/R2.x - XPsp2/vist64 - Adam A7

hoglibogli · Junior Member Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 65

I think I read that thread, but wasn't it about 2 MADI cards and a dual quadcore system?
I already had an eye on the Lynx cards, but so far I havn't seen anybody using 48 I/O with Lynx. We had the whole studio equiped with Motu and I'm glad that its all gone. But thats a couple of years ago on G4 Macs, maybe they improved their drivers since then.

Maybe there is someone else in this forum who already has a dual dualcore xeon (Woodcrest) system with two RME cards running.

Thanks!
_________________
Vincent

crypticglobe · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject:

All I know is that I ran 2 RME HDSP MADI cards in an ASUS PC-DL Dual 2.8ghz XEON system at FULL channel count for some time. This was on the single 32bit PCI bus with THREE UAD-1 cards as well. No problems of any kind. It worked perfectly.

I am currently running 2 RME AES-32 cards in my Tyan S2895 doing conversion with 2 Lynx Aurora 16's. Also it is working perfectly and always has. Unless there is some highly unusual chipset issue... your RME cards will work fine on just about any modern Intel motherboad. What you should be more worried about is over-all board bandwith for your other needs (memory, UAD-1's, 64bit down the road...etc.).

Hope this helps.
_________________
Steve Lamm
Cryptic Globe Recording
Houston Club Cubase/Nuendo Host
Custom DAW's and Audio Production
www.clubcubasehouston.com
Cubase/Nuendo School!

hoglibogli · Junior Member Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 65

Hi Steve,

thanks for your answer. Since I don't use any DSP cards I hope that the overall bandwith does not become a problem.

Do you think the RME cards will work properly in one of the PCI-X slots (the Tyan bord has only one normal PCI Slot)? Or are there other modern mobos with more than one normal PCI slot that I could use?
I hope you don't mind that I'm asking so much, but I know from my own experience that the wrong mobo can be a real pita.
_________________
Vincent

psvennevig · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject:

ten · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:32 am Post subject:

Thankfully my humble setup isnt quite that extensive....yet ;-)

ten
_________________
- Abit IP35-E - Intel Q6600@3.6ghz
- 4gig ddr2@1200 - 2x 150GB Raptors
- Albatron 8800GT - Dell 3007-HC @ 2560x1600
- Lynx2-C - N4.1/R2.x - XPsp2/vist64 - Adam A7

psvennevig · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:59 am Post subject:

Ok.
I love the Lynx to, but at many ASIO channels the smal problems start to show here also.
To me the MADI card of RME wins then. If Lynx would make a MADI card with the same performance (or close) as their AES16, I'm on it.

Pål
_________________
Nuendo 5.0.1, WK-Audio ID Control, RME HDSP MADIe, RME ADI-6432, 1xADI-8 QS, MBP i7, 8GB, SSD and MAC pro 8-cores Nehalem 12GB RAM 2x2.26GHz.

ten · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject:

Hmm... I think RME has a lot more problems than Lynx. Hey.....did RME manage to actually make 32 samples true 32 samples yet? I seem to remember they were having problems there ;-)

Did you ever get to the bottom of why Vins 2.66 woodie system beat your 3ghz system?

Glad I moved over when I did :-/

ten
_________________
- Abit IP35-E - Intel Q6600@3.6ghz
- 4gig ddr2@1200 - 2x 150GB Raptors
- Albatron 8800GT - Dell 3007-HC @ 2560x1600
- Lynx2-C - N4.1/R2.x - XPsp2/vist64 - Adam A7

psvennevig · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject:

The RME 3.0 driver adds 32 samples for the playback buffer, that's all.

I like both Lynx and RME, each for its purpose.

I do not want to take this discussion up again.

No. Vin and I did not track down why we had slight different scores. It might be that I had the control room running with loads of setup, and the WK ID Controller hooked up.

-Pål
_________________
Nuendo 5.0.1, WK-Audio ID Control, RME HDSP MADIe, RME ADI-6432, 1xADI-8 QS, MBP i7, 8GB, SSD and MAC pro 8-cores Nehalem 12GB RAM 2x2.26GHz.

ten · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject:

Yea that'll be it. The good ol control room at fault again. I would of hoped the combined 1.2ghz clock speed advantedge your system has would have at least compensated for that ;-)

I dunno what 'slight' means in Norway, but THREE times performance margin at 32 samples is ANYTHING but slight (and on a lower clocked very similar system I might add.)

And if its adding another 32 samples to the buffer its not true 32.....right? How long has that v3 driver been in beta now? Must be coming up to a year.

If you dont want to discuss it thats fine, but then you might want to avoid comments like "the MADI card of RME wins then", that suggest all is rosy in RME land, as with these problems that STILL havent been identified or even remotely addressed in god knows how long it quite clearly wins nothing whatsover.

ten
_________________
- Abit IP35-E - Intel Q6600@3.6ghz
- 4gig ddr2@1200 - 2x 150GB Raptors
- Albatron 8800GT - Dell 3007-HC @ 2560x1600
- Lynx2-C - N4.1/R2.x - XPsp2/vist64 - Adam A7

Animus · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject:

I would say there is a definite problem with RME hardware on AMD systems. I have experienced it firsthand, and it was enough of a problem that I had to build a Conroe system to replace the Opteron system (what a waste of money--to ebay I guess). It works perfect on Intel. On a Opteron system you can not use but 60% of the cpu cores without Nuendo falling over which appears to be a RME issue, which has been reported by many users and is shown in TAFKAT's benches. I wouldn't call these minor differences. It's a major problem.
_________________
http://www.cubendo.com

ten · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject:

Hey Ani, Glad to hear you have found a working setup finally. Shame you have to get shot of the opti rig, they are beasts when they are working (had some great times with mine and the Lynx2 cards - not so great with the Fireface.) Btw, you should be able to get good money for it, I recently sold my old other dual opti 285 rig (still got the 290s :-) and got very good prices for it!

The thing about the problem being AMD only though I am not to sure, as Pals Intel woodcrest system blofeld results suggest....

Blofelds DSP 40R2: Dell P650 Dual Xeon 5160 @ 3 GHZ: Nuendo 3.2 .1
C/O Psvennevig:

O.S: WinXP SP2: / RME HDSP MADI: Driver: 3.0 Beta10

512 Samples – 161 Magneto's (task manager shows 88% load during playback)
256 Samples – 131 Magneto’s (task manager shows 74% load during playback)
64 Samples - 71 Magneto's (task manager shows 68% load during playback)
32 Samples - 18 Magneto's (task manager shows 56% load during playback)

:-(
Its very good that you dont seem to be having this trouble (again) though!

@hoglibogli,

Sorry to take this a little off your topic dude :-) You might want to email Lynx and see if there is a disti in your area who might let you trial the kit you require (48 i/o) with your setup to see if it works. The guys at Lynx are very friendly and accomodating, I am sure you could sort something with them.

ten
_________________
- Abit IP35-E - Intel Q6600@3.6ghz
- 4gig ddr2@1200 - 2x 150GB Raptors
- Albatron 8800GT - Dell 3007-HC @ 2560x1600
- Lynx2-C - N4.1/R2.x - XPsp2/vist64 - Adam A7

psvennevig · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject:

Animus · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject:

Ten,

Yeah this Conroe system is a dream. No problems at all in the build or installation of software . Everything runs extremely well. Best DAW I have ever had. THe RME Multiface works great! THe Nuendo meter and TaskManager cpu meter are practically in sync. I can take it up to above 90% with no glitches. THe UADs in the Magma work perfect. On the Opteron system I had problems loading the hungry upsampling plugins like Neve bundle without it glitching. THe network (I use fxtelport) performs better with the Conroe. Just about everything. I am not even seeing the save/reopen RME bug on any of the benchmarks, very weird. THis one project I have was taking up about 70% cpu (45% TM) on the 265 Opteron system and was getting intermittant glitches at a 1024 buffer. THis E6600 (at stock speed) was running it perfectly at a 512 buffer and only used about 55% cpu. Needless to say I will never use AMD hardware again, especially with RME and UADS thrown in. I spent countless hours over the past 4 months trying to make it work reliably, not to mention the extra parts I was buying to swap out in the troubleshooting. Total cost of Opteron system=@$3500 Total cost of COnroe system=@ $1500 (included the parts I could salvage from the TYan system). It makes me sick to think about.

Anybody wanna good deal on some parts? ;-)
_________________
http://www.cubendo.com

crypticglobe · Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:59 am Post subject:

Hey Guys...

The RME cards work great in PCI, PCI-X 100mhz and PCI-X 133mhz here.

I don't know what kind of problems you guys were experiencing... but I have gotten fantastic performance on AMD and Intel systems here with RME AES-32's, HDSP MADI's, FF800's and FF400.

I am currently running 2 AES-32 cards in the PCI-X slots of my Tyan S2895 system... and they run perfectly!!

I am sure there has got to be some fire based on all the smoke about Lynx cards doing better at very low latencies. However, at Beta 16 for the RME line's new drivers... I think they may well be about to go away. I am able to do an astonishing amount of work at 32 or 64 buffers with my 2 AES-32 cards. No weird issues when re-opening projects, etc..

Just for the fun of it though... a friend/client of mine are going to so some performance testing very soon. He has 2 Lynx AES-16 cards and I have 2 RME AES-32 cards.

We are going to set up project with the Control Room running and test to see which card does better in my dual, dual core opteron 285 system for tracking a band at 32 and 64 buffer settings. We are going to do a 32 channel session at 48K using my Lynx Aurora converters. We will also probably pull up some big VST-I heavy projects and see how the system fares based on what cards are in it.

Nothing can change the fact that I am fan of RME... and always will be, however I will definitely report whatever we find.

I do know that at very high track counts/sample rates that the Lynx cards seem to really stress out a PCI bus, where as the RME cards don't as much. So.. perhaps each card has it's own set of strengths/weaknesses.

Just know... that your RME cards should work perfectly in the PCI-X slots. They have been for a long time on many systems here.
_________________
Steve Lamm
Cryptic Globe Recording
Houston Club Cubase/Nuendo Host
Custom DAW's and Audio Production
www.clubcubasehouston.com
Cubase/Nuendo School!

Animus · Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:23 am Post subject:

Hi cryptic,

Well, my Tyan system worked fine to a point. Depends on how much you actually use your machine. You have two 285's. That's some nice overhead and you probably don't hit the ceiling I hit with my 265's. I would be interested in hearing a honest answer on how your system performs when you start to hit 60% cpu in the TaskManager. A lot of people have been reporting these anamolies using RME and AMD. I have seen it firsthand, and using most the same hardware (PSU, Multiface, vidcard, Magma, UADs, case, etc) in the new COnroe machine, everything works great. RME and AMD is the only commonality these reported issues have from what I see. I think it's worth further investigation. I am just glad that nightmare is behind me, and thoroughly do not recomend anyone getting a RME/AMD/UAD combo until these issues are resolved.
_________________
http://www.cubendo.com

hoglibogli · Junior Member Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 65

Thanks a lot everybody, I will go for the Tyan i5000xt with two 3GHz Woodcrests and 4x 512MB RAM then. I stick the RME cards in the PCI-X Slot and we will see what happens ;) If I run into problems I can still test the Lynx Stuff.
_________________
Vincent

crypticglobe · Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: